Westside
5:54 Tue Mar 29
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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As a big Foakes fan, thought he had a poor series with the bat (average just over 19) and didn't distinguish himself with the gloves.
Right to drop Butler, though.
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Northern Sold
5:41 Tue Mar 29
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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Stokes drops to 6 to bowl more
Oh yeah so he can overhaul Botham...
... at the same stage ie... now...
Stokes - 31 years old - 174 Wickets
Botham - 31 years old - 356 Wickets
Fuck me gonna be flogged to death to even get within 100 wickets... which he probably won't....
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Sven Roeder
5:23 Tue Mar 29
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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England just need to make up their minds and stick with some batsmen for a while if there are limited options.
Make Stokes captain & appoint Justin Langer as red ball coach (Collingwood white ball) before he comes to his senses.
First Test team v NZ in June
Lees Crawley Root Lawrence Bairstow Stokes Foakes Mahmood Archer Broad Leach (or Parkinson)
Stokes drops to 6 to bowl more so Archer can bowl short spells
Would love to be a fly on the wall when Langer meets fat boy Ollie Robinson.
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Westside
12:10 Tue Mar 29
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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you want your #1-5 to at least threaten an average in the late 30s, 40s and - heaven forbid - even 50.
England have produced one batsman, who started their test career post the second world war, to have a test match average, of over 50.
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Westside
11:46 Tue Mar 29
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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Gilchrist (similar batsmen to Stokes) used to average almost 50 at #7!
Harsh comparing Stokes with the unfeasibly excellent Gilchrist. I don't believe Stokes keeps wicket.
England have only produced one wicket keeper to average over 40 (Prior), which is a much better comparison.
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Dr Matt
9:45 Mon Mar 28
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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No Pope - no hope.
I say no Pope, no hope!
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southbankbornnbred
6:46 Mon Mar 28
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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But in the larger scheme of things, where Stokes bats is neither here nor there: we have to produce some test-quality players first!
As I say, Stokes is not the problem by any means.
Not a single test-class player (who has produced regularly and at a high level) produced by England since 2012 when Root and Stokes embedded in the side.
Archer gets close. But we nicked him from the Windies and he's been injured for 18 months. Robinson has the potential to get there, but it's unproven potential at the moment.
But no sign of a test-match batsmen coming through. It is pitiful.
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southbankbornnbred
6:37 Mon Mar 28
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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Westie,
Sure - I hear ya. But he's still below 40 when batting in a top-five slot (and his more recent average has been coming down).
You're talking about the difference between a few runs per test. And you want your top five to be targeting 40+ averages (I know, bit difficult for this generation of England players - granted!).
I also think Stokes' attacking style suits that middle-order a bit more. I'd prefer my top five to be batsmen who can knuckle down and bat for time when it matters. Show some patience. Again, we're devoid of such batsmen at the moment. But Stokes suits that #6 slot more. He's been over-promoted because we have nobody else.
Gilchrist (similar batsmen to Stokes) used to average almost 50 at #7!
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Westside
6:13 Mon Mar 28
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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Stokes should bat at #6 by any reckoning. He only averages 35 in tests.
Stokes averages just under 40, when batting at 5. Lower when batting in all other positions.
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Northern Sold
5:10 Mon Mar 28
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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Reel him?? Not sure he's going to be playing until he's 50.... what a chump
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Sven Roeder
4:44 Mon Mar 28
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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Unless you are a freak like Jacques KALLIS averaging 55 batting at 3 while you take 290 odd Test wickets the natural position for an all rounder has always been at 6.
It feels like the natural position for Stokes and would probably mean he WOULD bowl more and reel in Beefy Botham ..... but he is a victim of England not finding a better no.5
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southbankbornnbred
3:15 Mon Mar 28
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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Stokes batting at #5 is, for me, part of the problem - albeit a minor problem for an England side drowned in difficulties.
Stokes should bat at #6 by any reckoning. He only averages 35 in tests. But with the exception of Root, England's top order is just so fragile and non-existent that Stokes is considered one of the top five standout batsmen.
I like Stokes and he is not by any means the reason why England are struggling. But he should be in a proper all-rounder slot. In an ideal world (which England are far from), you want your #1-5 to at least threaten an average in the late 30s, 40s and - heaven forbid - even 50.
Long gone are the days when England had Bell at #5 averaging almost 45 per knock - with players like Chef and Pietersen averaging more in the slots above him.
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Sven Roeder
8:57 Sun Mar 27
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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You would class Stokes batting at 5 as a batting all rounder
The others are bowling all rounders
He will leave Botham well behind with the bat and is already 1,200 ahead of Flintoff
Where do you rank him? 2nd behind Botham? Ok then
End of the day England have 4 of their greatest of all time available.
And have won 1 Test in 17
Where does that leave them in a few years time without them when people like Mad Marcus Trescothick tell us everything was great in the Windiies except for ONE BAD DAY?
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Northern Sold
8:44 Sun Mar 27
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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Stokes is 31 in a few months time.... last 3 seasons he has taken 33 wickets ... to over take Beefy he will have to be over 50 years old at that rate... Ha Ha Ha Ha...
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Northern Sold
8:37 Sun Mar 27
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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Stokes England's Greatest all rounder???
AG AG AG AG AG AG AG !!!
Stick to sheffield shield and your other shit sports... absolute clueless
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Lee Trundle
8:35 Sun Mar 27
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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Thanks for agreeing with me.
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Sven Roeder
8:33 Sun Mar 27
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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You can decide where Stokes fits with Botham & Flintoff (bowling all rounders).
He will go past Botham's runs in the summer having played 20 less Tests.
Has 174 wickets from approx 10,000 balls. Flintoff 226 from 15,000 & Botham 383 from 21,800.
Give him 3/4/5 more years & he will have lapped both for runs and if he is allowed to bowl more will be close to catching Botham's wickets.
Either way 4 all time champions ..... I'm wanting MUCH better than 1 win in 17 no matter who the rest are.
Who loses to the West Indies who have been atrocious since Lara finished?
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Lee Trundle
8:02 Sun Mar 27
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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"Stokes is England's greatest ever all rounder"
That's bollocks.
And you've pretty much echoed what others have said. You take Root, Broad and Anderson away from the team and you're left with utter shit.
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Sven Roeder
7:56 Sun Mar 27
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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Just saying MUCH better than no win in 9 and 1 Test win in 17.
MUCH better than not having a managing director or head coach and having a captain who looks like a rabbit in the headlights.
Have said many times (it seems to anger some) that:
Joe Root will end as England's leading Test runscorer
Broad & Anderson are England's greatest Test wicket takers of all time
Stokes is England's greatest ever all rounder
With that as a base any team should be doing MUCH better than the current record.
England's home record over the last decade was very good I recall until they appointed the dismal Silverwood who was clueless and wanted to leave players out for ANOTHER DAY & give up some Tests.
Bit of a break now to appoint some competent people and then face NZ & S Africa in the summer. Picking your best players for every Test.
Both are beatable
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stewie griffin
3:49 Sun Mar 27
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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This group should be doing MUCH better
Yep, just wrong I'm afraid. Last winter we were told it was county crickets fault for not preparing players to play spin in India. This winter we were told it was county cricket fault for not preparing players to play against pace and bounce.
'It sets them up to play against people like Darren Stevens' they wailed.
They've got rolled over by a bloke who is basically a west Indian Darren Stevens minus about ten years. Match figures of 7 for 22 from 23 overs.
They're out of excuses. They're just not good enough.
At least Root got to show how ruddy bloody tough he is leaving out our two best bowlers.
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southbankbornnbred
1:48 Sun Mar 27
Re: The Ashes 2021-22
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Not a single notable test-class player produced by England for an entire decade.
Let that sink in while Strauss tells you it's all OK.
The ECB system is broken and county cricket is about fifty years out of date. The entire sport is ripe for a huge overhaul - but it won't happen. Instead, they'll plod on with their 'fingers crossed' approach...
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